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which is the hardest carbon guitar?
June 30, 2010 - 7:46am
we, the community of carbon-related-wise-men, should place our opinion regarding this!
i mean, carbon guitars are hard indeed, weather resistant and so, but... which brand do you think build the hardest of them? which would allow more excesses? of course we are not going to make any experimentation, but would be funny to chat a bit about it ;)
for example, some of them have glued parts that could be not as resistant to extreme heat, which could result on lifting bridges and so. some are thinner that others...
there are videos of Emerald used as a paddle and extreme hiking, scuba diving in the north pole with a blackbird, Ca surviving katrina and under gun fire during Irak's war... i don't have any sample from Rainsong, but i'm sure there should also be some amazing experience
we talk about carbon guitars, but each company is using completely different materials and mixtures: Ca using some very complex composites of different carbon fibers with resigns and bubbles. Blackbird using also kevlar. Rainsong using pre-preg and recently glass fiber. Emerald keeps his secrets for the moment but they are the only ones able to do a guitar completely in one single piece, without any trace of glue
today i was performing with my cargo raw under sunlight at 36 celsius degrees (don't know the equivalence) and thought about the glues. CA said that you shouldn't worry for the glues until 150 and do not worry for the carbon fiber until 200. painting and finishes would have problems at lower temperatures, though. anyway, i'd like to have today a glue-less guitar like the Emerald. i know it's fine for the moment and most surely i won't have problems, but... who knows!
what do you think?
June 30, 2010 - 8:36am
#2
Putting my chemist hat on.......
First the carbon fiber itself may vary from one source to another. But even then, what matters more is the diameter and weave patten of the cloth. After that, the resin varies from one manufacturer to another, and different resins have differnt Tgs, or temperatures at which they soften. All of which we can't really know, because they won't tell us.
But really the most important thing in all this is the lay up - just how much of what weigth cloth at what resin ratio do they use in construction. True for boats, and true for guitars as well.
In that regard, I would think that the back and sides of a CA may be about the strongest out there, as there are photos of Ellis or someone at CA standing and even jumping on the back of one of their guitars to show how strong they are. And when you pick up a CA the heft is really noticeable compared with other carbon fiber guitars.
Not that that's such a good thing though, as I've always wondered whether CAs weren't overbuilt. And it says nothing about how hot it can get before the bridge lifts off, or whether you can hit a baseball with the neck. Or whether the glue joints are strong enough.
About the only thing I will predict for sure is that they ALL will beat wood!
June 30, 2010 - 9:16am
#3
My approach to the use of my Cargos is that if I treat them with essentially the same care I would a wood guitar, they should last longer than I will. The only deviation from wood guitar care for me with the Cargos is that I leave the Cargos out on stands all the time (but then I don't have pets or kids to knock them over). Whether my Cargos are built as good as, better than, or not as good as another manufacturer's instruments really doesn't concern me because I just don't intend to mistreat these instruments. I still prefer my Cargos over ANY other carbon fiber instruments I have played, regardless of make and model (i.e. of all the CA guitars instruments i played, I still much prefer the Cargo, so it isn't a "brand" thing for me). There is just something about the Cargo RT that is "right" for me, and I intend to have all three of mine last my lifetime at least.
Tony
June 30, 2010 - 1:08pm
#4
I would have to say CA but that is not necessarily good. CA's are heavier and I would have to assume stronger, but the weak spot on any composite guitar would be where it is glued. Given tops were glued on I assume that is the weakest point. Rainsong is much lighter which is great for a guitar but not as good for a ball bat.
Steve
June 30, 2010 - 5:33pm
#5
I'm with Tony, I treat my Emerald like any good jewel; but I have the pleasure of always having it on hand. And there's this: as durable as they are, carbon fiber guitars are a relatively new instrument and the true test of durability is going to be time. I know epoxiy degenerates over time and I suspect that heat and light may hasten such degeneration. I'd like my guitar to be passed on through at least 3 or 4 generations.
June 30, 2010 - 7:07pm
#6
Paper_Kitten wrote:
today i was performing with my cargo raw under sunlight at 36 celsius degrees (don't know the equivalence) and thought about the glues. CA said that you shouldn't worry for the glues until 150 and do not worry for the carbon fiber until 200.
what do you think?
I think 36 C is pretty hot, 96.8 F. The 150 and 200 that CA stated is F not C ! 200 C is nearly 400 F. To put that in perspective, you cook a turkey at 350 F or 177 C
On a 36C day in the sun, the surface temperature on a black guitar will easily reach 65 C and the glue joints will begin to fail.
ken
June 30, 2010 - 7:31pm
#7
Guess you lose some in the translations.
__________________
Life Is good.. just getting expensive.
CA: 5i, OX, Cargos x 4,
Emerald:
black X-7, and 2 Woodys: X-10, X-7,
RainSong: Shorty FT
Some Yammys and others. Too many?
July 1, 2010 - 7:30am
#8
yeah, i know this temperatures were farenheit. it was my fault not to write it XD
and you are also right. the surface of the guitar get amazingly hot. i'll buy a thermometer and show you the results with a pic. it gets hot as hell.
i read somewhere the epoxy rainsong (and also CA, i think) used was the same used for aerospace shuttles, so i assume it'll be quite resistant.
very interesting feedback. any opinions regarding blackbird? what you think about glue-less emeralds?
July 1, 2010 - 11:44am
#9
Tell me more of this "hell" you speak of... personal experience.. pictures? Does it get to 120F like here at my humble abode?
__________________
Life Is good.. just getting expensive.
CA: 5i, OX, Cargos x 4,
Emerald:
black X-7, and 2 Woodys: X-10, X-7,
RainSong: Shorty FT
Some Yammys and others. Too many?
July 1, 2010 - 12:30pm
#10
XD i'll send you pics soon. are you suffering 120 degrees???? but i'm sure you have a great air conditioning, while i'm outside exposed to direct sun and with no gorgeous swimmingpool and with no emeralds to pass my time by ;)
Hard to say.
Life Is good.. just getting expensive.
CA: 5i, OX, Cargos x 4,
Emerald:
black X-7, and 2 Woodys: X-10, X-7,
RainSong: Shorty FT
Some Yammys and others. Too many?