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carbon cedar, carbon rosewood.

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evan
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Jumbo
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I've been comparing an Emerald X10N with a Blackbird nylon string Rider.  I've noticed that the weave on the Blackbird seems tighter, has more weaves to an inch.  I've also noted that wooden guitars use difference densities for back/sides and top.  Do you suppose that different weaves of carbon fiber might be particularly suited to particular parts of the guitar?

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Evan

Laughinglarry
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OM
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I believe that Blackbird states on their website that they actually do use different CF for the different parts.  Damn, I had to go and look it up:

"Materials
Carbon fiber comes in a variety of different styles and configurations which accommodates a huge range of applications. Blackbird guitars take full advantage of this versatility, utilizing a blend of uni-directional (super stiff in one direction), 90 degree (strong and stiff in two directions) and twill (wraps well in three dimensions) along with core materials to add strength and reduce weight even further. Carbon fiber's stiffness is what makes it physically superior to wood as a sound board material. Its durability and strength, no matter the conditions, makes for a perfect travelling companion."

I'm not sure how to take that.  Maybe Joe can give us a better explanation, as I'm not sure what a "blend" really means (is it layering, using the different materials in different sections, or something else?)...

Steve Christensen
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This is really a fascinating area.  The use of different types of cloth weave in composite construction is well known as it relates to strength, weight, and cost - but tone?  I bet that's something that these builders have been discovering as they go.  I also rather doubt it's something they would share with us!

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Steve Christensen
Twin Cities, MN

CarbonAxe
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Nice thread, oh...I mean fiber. Seriously, this is the subject that will probably come to the forefront of CF guitar building since us acoustic folks are all about the nuances of the sound. Everyone likes to say that their favorite wood guitar brand has its own signature sound, and that is probably true to some extent, but anybody who has ardently listened to guitars made from different woods would say that there is clearly different sound signatures to the different woods regardless of who created a guitar out of them. If the CF builders start to offer different models based on different CF material formulations which produced different sound signatures for the same model...well, wouldn't that be interesting. Again, nice fiber you ole' desert rat.

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Paper_Kitten
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i know some of you have CA's patent and Ellis states clearly there that he searched and achieved the sound he was looking for by mixing layers of different carbon fiber and other fibers and resins. he quite specifies what they used and in which amount in each part of the guitar, although not the exact layering. rainsong is always proud to say they use pure pre-preg graphite. blackbird is also proud of his receipt (together with kevlar). as for Emerald it is a well kept secret...

i see clearly that the secrets about the sounding of each carbon guitar manufacturer are the layering/type/composition of the fiber mixture together with the design (bracing, soundholes, body shape...)

it is not as easy as to put a bunch of layers of carbon fiber together. i'm glad such great creative luthiers are doing this for us!

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